If you didn’t see the news over the weekend, Doug Phillips of Vision Forum confessed to an inappropriate relationship with a woman not his wife. If you aren’t familiar with all this, just do a search and you’ll find plenty of reaction.
Way back in 2006 I took a public stand against Doug Phillips and Vision Forum. Coming out against VF was not a popular move. At the time I had a well-read blog. But when I said that there were some serious problems with Vision Forum and the teachings coming out of there, my numbers took a hit. I’ve never regretted taking that stand and I’d do it again in heartbeat.
Doug Phillips is no stranger to controversy or accusations that he is heavy handed in the way he deals with people he believes to be his enemy. For some truly stunning examples, see this lengthy explanation on the Well-Trained Mind forum or Jens Gems. If you want to read more, Karen has done so much to expose the problems with patriarchy, Vision Forum, etc. She has also started a new series on this.
So who is to blame for Doug Phillips’ resignation and the current mess? How could this have been avoided?
Obviously Doug himself is partially to blame. That’s obvious and I’m not going to spend my time there. Others have analyzed him to death this weekend. I’m moving on from that.
But where else does the blame fall?
Way back when all of the controversy around the Epsteins was going on, David and I were involved in some discussions online. We have NEVER forgotten one of them and we still refer to it almost seven years later. In the midst of the discussion where the ideas of DP and VF were taking a beating at the hand of those of us actually trying to think logically and based on Scripture, a man said, “We need Doug Phillips to speak about this.” Spunky of Spunky Homeschool was also involved in the discussion. She jumped in and said, “No, we don’t need to hear from Doug Phillips so we know what to think. We need to be Bereans and study this for ourselves.”
BINGO.
A good portion of the blame for this situation goes to every follower of Doug Phillips and Vision Forum who never took the time to be a Berean. Who took in what DP said hook, line and sinker. Who got sucked in by the gorgeous catalog and the swanky conferences. Who looked to Doug Phillips and his message of the perfect family instead of Jesus Christ and His message of grace, repentance, and forgiveness. The average VF customer who was not a Berean is partially to blame. The only reason VF and DP have the influence they do today is because people kept giving them the dollars.
Some of the blame goes to the men around him who chose to fear Doug rather than fear God. Unless the men around him are so spiritually and emotionally bankrupt that they truly cannot tell right from wrong, they HAD to have known that the way DP and VF did business was not right. There are too many stories of ruined lives to explain them ALL away as being the problem of the other people. Did DP deal with some difficult people? I’m sure he did. And I’m sure that at least a few times he was probably in the right. But this many times? No way. And so the men who surround him, work with him, speak with him, etc. are to blame for this situation as well. Perhaps if they had tried to check him at some point, this would not have happened.
I also put some of the blame on conservative evangelical leaders who did not call him out or distance themselves from him. My personal theory is that most of them are unwilling to do so because they don’t want to rock the boat. They don’t want to be on anyone’s bad side because that can mean fewer speaking opportunities, fewer book endorsements, and so on. Burning bridges isn’t wise if you have or desire a national platform. And so they looked the other way.
I also think some of the conservative evangelical leaders did not call out DP and VF because the rally around complementarianism has been so strong the past couple of years that they are unwilling to undermine anyone who is in their big tent of complementarianism. Did they think DP was a bit extreme? Probably. But their dislike of egalitarianism is so strong that they are willing to look the other way even when one of their own is a bit nutty in what he’s promoting. As long as he’s not an egalitarian, they’re going to just pretend everything is okay.
Which brings me to the women.
Are the women to blame?
Which women are to blame?
Are the women to blame? It is hard for me to say yes, but yes. They must shoulder at least a small portion of the responsibility for this situation.
His wife is in some small ways responsible. She made the choice along the way to go along with his teachings. She made the choice to either look the other way or participate in the unChristlike way he treated others. She had a choice to look at Jesus or at her husband. She enabled him.
The woman he became involved with is partially to blame. She made the choice to respond to his advances (or she made the advances herself). She made the choice to continue to put herself in the situation where this unfaithfulness took place. Even if Phillips is her superior (employer, elder, etc.), she still had a choice. She had a choice to look at Jesus or look at Phillips.
But wait! Sallie, how can you say that? How can you blame the women? They didn’t have a choice. They are so indoctrinated that they don’t even know they have a choice to stand up to him or reject him.
BINGO.
And with that you have proved my point.
This entire system is toxic to women. Poison. Horrible. Oppressive. Wrong. Unbiblical. Evil.
Do you want more words?
Filthy. Destructive. Wasteful. Disgusting.
Do you want me to put them in all caps so I’m shouting?
Yes.
THE ENTIRE SYSTEM IS TOXIC. HORRIBLE. OPPRESSIVE. WRONG. UNBIBLICAL. EVIL.
Either the women are to blame or they are victims of a terrible situation.
Make a choice.
Either the women around him are partially to blame or they are victims of an incredibly unhealthy cultic theological system.
If you didn’t read it, go back and read that comment in the Well-Trained Mind forum. It is sickening. Disgusting. Vile. Horrific. How can anyone think that Jesus would treat women this way? These are not the ramblings of someone not in the know. These are well-established facts that have been public knowledge for a long time.
This is a system that destroys women. That denies them the very basics of personhood. It is a system that treats women like total dirt. Jesus would NEVER treat women like this. NEVER EVER.
You can’t have it both ways. Either the women are to blame or they are being spiritually abused inside a horrible, evil, disgusting cultic system.
And if I sound angry, it is because I am.
How many families have been destroyed in the past seven years because no one was willing to stand up to this man? How many young woman are still stuck at home with no life and no future because their parents listened to this man?
Other people spent the weekend expressing sympathy for his wife and family. Fine. Feel sorry for them. But right now I’m feeling angry and sorry for all the lives that were destroyed because this garbage spread year after year.
Think about how his children will suffer for this all you want. Fine. I’m sorry for his kids, too.
But I’m even more sorry for all the young women (and men) who were shamed and vilified because they had an interest in someone of the opposite sex while the man promoting the shaming was apparently doing the same thing and still out there preaching against it.
Yes, I’m angry. I’m angry for every person who was turned off to Christ and Christianity because this garbage was forced down their throat.
Yes, I’m angry. I’m angry for every parent who provoked their children to such despair and anger with these teachings that they felt they had no choice but to flee their own family so they could have a life.
Yes, I’m angry. And if you’ve been paying attention, you should be angry too. This kind of stuff is horrible for what it does to people and their view of Jesus Christ and Christianity.
It sickens me when I read blogs written by women who escaped this garbage and now are atheists. It sickens me that this is their view of Jesus.
Jesus loved women. Women loved Jesus.
And it sickens me that people will still call VF today and order more of this garbage and destroy more lives.
Thanks for speaking up in ’06. I was reading your blog at the time and continued to read it despite the fact that I didn’t agree then, with your article. When my family and I faced the facts of what Doug Phillips was teaching and how it was affecting the lives of our homeschooling friends, particularly in relationship to marriage and daughters staying at home, I took comfort in the things that you had written. I believe that you were a part of my eyes opening to what was really going on. Our family has suffered much at the hands of patriarchy. I am grateful for the faithful friends who guided and aided us during our time of difficulty. Thankful too, that God has kept our children from leaving the church even though it would be reasonable to do so in light of what they have experienced.
I am a huge opponent of VF ministries. However, I cannot agree with the lack of mercy and love in this post.
That being said..I LOVE your original post in 2006 that expresses exactly what I feel about VF. Very similar experiences.
Well said!
Michelle,
This post is full of love and mercy – for the victims.
Thanks, Paula. I am so glad your family has found freedom and healing. Thank you for letting me know God used me in a small way to help. 🙂
This is something that isn’t well known to anyone outside my immediate family, but for a time I was sucked into the patriarchal mindset. They all just looked so “perfect” to me – they were doing everything “right”. For reasons that sometimes I can’t even understand, my thinking was that if I could just follow all the rules & regulations, that my life & my family would be “perfect”. Having undiagnosed health problems at the time (later I was found to have Fibromyalgia & CFIDS) made my mindset even more bizarre – there was NO WAY I was EVER going to be able to achieve even one iota of what these “men” wanted me to. But I bought all the books, and we faithfully attended all the seminars, workshops & conventions. To make this more strange, Doug Phillips called my husband, and asked him to be a part of an organization he was forming in Texas called Vision Forum Ministries. Well, gee, golly, wow – what an honor, right? But you know, the only thing my dh said after that conversation was, “that man is CRAZY!”
It was only when our oldest son met a young lady whose family believed in betrothal, did I become a Berean. But it was too late. Our son was okay with his future bride’s & her family’s belief system, mainly because of what I had taught him at home during our years of homeschooling. As our research into the patriarchal mindset deepened, we were shocked, and my eyes were thoroughly opened, thank God. But unfortunately our family wasn’t patriarchal enough to suit our son’s in-laws, and he was counseled to cut-off relationship with us. Our son was gone from our lives for almost four years. But praise God for His mercy & grace, the relationship was restored.
I apologize for rambling here, but much of my weekend was spent thinking of the young lady involved in this situation, and looking back on how we were treated by homeschooling friends, especially those in leadership in our state homeschooling organization (we were advisory members). My heart just aches for her, and I am continually lifting her in prayer. Yes, I understand she made a bad choice, but I also KNOW what is being said about this young woman in the patriarchal circles. Because I know what was said about me. The pain & the guilt is so overwhelming – I am afraid for her.
I thank you so much for writing this article. While my writing skills are not the best, I have tried over the years to speak out about the patriarchal movement, and keep home educators informed of this toxic belief system. There have been times I have wondered myself why others (pastors, homeschooling leaders, etc.) do not speak up. Several vendors of homeschooling curricula have privately messaged me on Facebook and explained that they cannot speak up, because it would very much hurt their sales. Personally, I think that is bogus, but it is their choice. For you to urge everyone to be a Berean is perfect advice – because that is where the rubber meets the road. No matter who we are listening too – – we should get out our Bibles and look it up for own selves!
Michelle – this post just oozed love & mercy. Now on the other hand, if I would have written it…..well, not so much! ;-D You need to walk a mile in the shoes of families who lives have been devastated and destroyed by the patriocentrists; then you will understand.
Thank you for writing this.
I’ve backed over several paragraphs that I’ve written here, but truly, what can anyone say? You’ve said it all.
Sallie,
You have said it well. BINGO! I have read some of those young women’s stories that are now proclaimed “atheists” and they are shocking. The hypocrisy of it all.
I truly believe that so much of this comes from wanting to do things better for our kids. It really wasn’t until one of our grown kids was in a serious relationship that we began to really examine what the scripture said about it all. There are SO many opinions out there. We were told that they shouldn’t even be holding hands. They were in their 20’s. When I shared that I didn’t feel that I needed to tell a 24 yr.old son what to do, I was told, you could because he still lives in your house. How Crazy!! How did we all start to listen to this?
We have to search the scriptures and pray and not put these men on a pedastol!!
Sallie,
You have said it well. BINGO! I have read some of those young women’s stories that are now proclaimed “atheists” and they are shocking. The hypocrisy of it all.
I truly believe that so much of this comes from wanting to do things better for our kids. It really wasn’t until one of our grown kids was in a serious relationship that we began to really examine what the scripture said about it all. There are SO many opinions out there. We were told that they shouldn’t even be holding hands. They were in their 20’s. When I shared that I didn’t feel that I needed to tell a 24 yr.old son what to do, I was told, you could because he still lives in your house. How Crazy!! How did we all start to listen to this?
We have to search the scriptures and pray and not put these men on a pedastol!!
Oh, Sue, stories like yours are the reason Sallie and I will not stop exposing this paradigm and challenging others to use discernment! Bless you for sharing this. {{{{{}}}}}
To say that the woman is to blame for adulterous affairs and such is kinda like blaming a woman for having a miscarriage. OR even worse for blaming a women for getting raped! Sarah was married to Abraham and he slept with many other women. Tamar example…think of all the other examples right down to David and bathsheba.
The real issue here is Doug Philips lack of repentance to Christ alone. That cuts out the man’s desire for lust in the flesh and puts his mind on things of heaven. Cuts out on pride and other failures of men. To me Visionforum is very focused on patriarical topics and nationalism. Those things aren’t focused on Christ’s ministry which he says, “ye shall be hated of all nations for my name…..” There is no focus on martydom and living for the truth in an ungodly world right up to talking and sharing gospel with gangsters or muslims etc.
Having a picture perfect family as vision forum displays is possible but only when the truth is infecting the entire family. Otherwise it is liberalism at its finest and appears good but with inward rottenness.
Patriarchal movement is a dangerous movement away from Christ. Perverting the minds of daughters so that they no not where to turn if their father is a “pig” and can not control him self.
I feel aweful if people look at doug philips and think that he is a model Christian man. That is not truth. A person can only find Christ by giving a cup of cold water to one who asks, clothing the naked and such as christ asks us to do….NOT by obeying the words of Doug Philips. He is man and likely to fall into any trap.
I don’t want to hear of families who now have chosen to abort their future children in their family because Doug Philips failed. That would be foolish. He sells Christian literature…..and so does walmart and if you have lived long enough you know that the owners and managers at Walmart stores are not sin-free humans either…..
I have encountered a leadership failure like this before…. I went to a “christian” college and the professor openly left his wife and kids for another woman. We need to trust Christ, not the leadership we see in front of our eyes. If anything, homechurch and reading the words of Christ will give you all the spiritual nourishment you will ever need and you can freely go as you please.
Thank you Sallie! I am very thankful for you and Karen and Virginia and the others who have researched and spoken out for the last 7yrs or so. You have all encouraged our family, children now grown up, to be Bereans & to share the facts about this craziness and your blogs are great resources “out in the field”.
Wow! I’m learning so much from these articles. I just want to know if you are a professional cult-extraction counselor or something? Very thorough. I don’t think calling something sin is harsh. I wrote an article on this subject also. It seems so wimpy compared to yours. http://organizedeveryday.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-death-of-vision-or-start-of-new-one.html
But I’m a newbie in this stuff:)
This is great writing. Thank you!
It seems to me that if you were to write again about the problems with Vision Forum – the 2006 article you linked to – it would be a lot stronger on the disapproval. Am I correct? Did your view of them get worse since then?
“The woman he became involved with is partially to blame. She made the choice to respond to his advances (or she made the advances herself). She made the choice to continue to put herself in the situation where this unfaithfulness took place. ”
I think it’s too early to say. Since we don’t know who Phillips was involved with, we don’t know if it was an affair between consenting adults, or something more exploitative. If she was a minor, or if force or threats were involved, she should be recognized as a victim rather than a willing participant. Once we have more information, we’ll have a clearer picture of the whole debacle.
Hi Ahab,
That was the point I was making. If it was consensual, she’s partially to blame. If it wasn’t consensual…. The teachings of VF and DP set women up for sexual exploitation because it renders them basically incapable of telling a man – ANY MAN – no. They are trained from their toddlerhood to obey men without question.
Sallie, that last point is so important. We have to remember that the young women who are raised in these circles are purposefully kept childlike. Remember the book Fascinating Womanhood? Mormon writer Helen Andelein tells followers that being childlike is appealing to men. The Ladies Against Feminism have recommended and even linked to this dreadful and unbiblical book! More on this ideal here:
Scroll down to the article The Cult of Godly Womanhood
http://www.midwestoutreach.org/Pdf%20Journals/2011/fall_2011_mcojournal.pdf
All I can do is shake my head. There is so much venom and accusation in this article. Really??? Blame his wife for his sin? Blame our family for buying toys from Vision Forum’s catalog? I read the article again and I’m seeing a lot of what you think, but, not so much of what God thinks. Where in scripture dose it say that we should blame others for one man’s sin? This all smacks of so much pride. How about a call to humbly pray to God for Doug Philips, his wife, his family. How about praying for the other woman to come to repentance and a closer walk with God. How about prayer for unity in the church. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. It’s so easy, in our pride, to throw rocks at someone who has fallen. Where is the mercy and grace?
Hi Robin,
Thanks for your comment. This post is not just about one particular person making a mistake any of us could make. This post is about the systematic exploitation of women and girls within the VF and DP community.
I don’t know if you’ve read anything else on this blog, but I encourage you to do so. This post in the context of everything else I have written about will make much more sense. Did you read all the links I linked to, especially the on at the Well-Trained Mind forum?
I am sorry for his family and I stated that. I’m sorry for more than just this one event in their lives, but what his daughters have probably lived with their entire lives. But I am more sorry that this has gone on for about ten years and so many people have been unwilling to say no more. If I allowed my husband to treat people the way men in these circles treat women, I do believe I would be partially to blame for it. As his wife I have a responsibility to call him to repentance and admonish him if I see him sinning. He does the same thing for me. Am I technically responsible for his sin? No. It is his sin and mine is mine. But I would be a terrible sister in Christ to him if I didn’t say something when he was going the wrong direction.
This is not an isolated incident where a man made one mistake. This is an unhealthy system that destroys lives. And that is why I’m angry. Righteous anger is not wrong. Jesus himself got angry. And I have a ton of mercy and love for the people whose lives have been destroyed by all this over the years. I didn’t write this post off the top of my head after reading something on Facebook. I’ve been battling this for years, hoping to see women (and men freed) from it.
I’m tired of getting letters and reading blogs of women who have been so damaged by the application of these teachings they can’t even darken the door of a church or have completely turned their back on Christ. It makes me sick when I read what they have experienced.
This goes way beyond Doug being unfaithful to his wife. I’m angry that this whole system has continued to exist for this long and lives are being destroyed by it even as we speak. And if Jesus was sitting right here beside me in the flesh, I’d write the same thing all over again. Why? Because I am confident this destruction of lives makes Him angry too.
Sue,
Thank you for sharing your story. It is one I have heard and read about too many times. I’m so glad your family was reconciled with your son, but I can imagine how difficult those four years were.
Like you, I am very concerned for the woman/girl. If she is an integral part of the VF world… It is going to be very difficult for her. Truthfully I hope it is someone not connected in any way with VF as she would probably stand a better chance of putting her life back together in some normal way. But I don’t think this is the case.
Keri,
I do believe that much of this comes from a desire to do it “right” for our kids. That was what drew us to it initially. Fear drives a great deal of it too. Fear was a motivator for us as well.
But when you start peeling back the layers of the system and look at the totality of Scripture… There are serious problems with the teachings.
Laura,
When I discussed the wife being responsible to a certain degree, I knew that there would be some pushback on that. And I’m fine with it.
Again, I’m looking at the totality of the situation. This is not just about one event – a lengthy inappropriate relationship. This goes far beyond it. This is about a system that exploits women.
And we are responsible to respond to the sin we see around us.
If a woman knows her husband is abusing the children, she has a moral obligation to say something and do something to stop it. If a woman knows her husband is cheating in his business, she has a moral obligation to try to persuade him to stop. If a woman knows her husband is stealing from a friend, she has an obligation to confront him. A wife has an obligation to look out for her husband’s best interest and that includes counseling him as a sister in Christ when he is wrong. (She also has a legal responsibility in some cases.)
If a wife looks the other way when she sees her husband doing wrong, she is wrong. And, yes, I think it does make her an accomplice to the situation.
And if she is so destroyed by the system she is in that she can’t even take a stand against the wrongdoings, then there is an even bigger problem.
Hi Jena,
LOL! No, I’m not a professional in the area of cults. (My husband loved your term for it!)
But I am very passionate about the plight of women in the body of Christ and spiritual abuse. I write here as I’m able because I care deeply that women (and men) know the grace, love and forgiveness of Jesus.
Retha,
Yes, my opinion of VF would be even more strongly against them now. I only knew a fraction in 2006. The ensuing years of study and observation have just more firmly confirmed to me that much of what they promote is wrong and dangerous.
One thing that I find sobering about Vision Forum and many other like-minded groups is that they diligently search the scriptures to find the “right” way, but…. Jesus said the same thing about the Pharisees. “You search diligently the Scriptures to find eternal life, yet these are the scriptures that talk about Me”, and the Pharisees were furious. One can set up all these systems and do it all in the name of Scripture, yet miss the whole point. That’s scary.
The Pharisees had all these rules and ways of doing things and complained that Jesus’ and John’s disciples didn’t follow them, nor were they concerned with mercy and compassion. Like when Jesus healed the lame on the Sabbath, the Pharisees response was to bad mouth Jesus, calling what he did as demonic, and then plotting to kill him!
The Gospel has chilling warnings for us about making sure our focus is on Jesus and not religious systems made by men who are all about appearances but inwardly are not close to God at all.
David,
it is interesting you brought up the Pharisees. (Excellent comment, BTW.) I came across this post shortly after you wrote that. Good food for thought.
Don’t Be A Modern Day Pharisee
http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/145958-jesus-manifesto-avoid-modern-day-pharisaism.html
Thank you for that. This is really eye-opening for me! I’ve bought from VF before (Jonathan Park stuff I think) but really had NO idea what this company/movement was about. At all. I kind of just assumed it was probably a decent, Christian company that sold mostly Christian books. I’ve honestly never thought about DP. Makes me feel a little guilty for blindly buying from a company I guess. I assumed it was a smaller, more specialized CBD type company. I didn’t realize it was an entire movement. Being in the h’school community I definitely see things that I don’t feel comfortable with for our family and I never really had a name for it. Although, maybe not as strongly around here as in other areas. Very interesting and I’m going to be poking around on your blog to gain some more understanding. Thank you.
Thank you for this analysis. You have gone to the heart of something I have been trying to get straight in my own mind over the past few days
Bingo , indeed!
I fully anticipated the fall of Doug Phillips to thoroughly gratify feminists. What Doug taught and stood for remains biblical and feminism will continue to reflect a rebellious spirit. Doug may have made mistakes but he is the only courageous man amongst many wimps to speak for Biblical truth which will scarcely amuse liberals.
Janet,
Thank you for your comment. I do not find Doug Phillips’ fall gratifying. I find it profoundly sad that another Christian leader has given the world yet another reason to doubt what we say. And I’m very sad for the people who put him on a pedestal and thought of him as next-to-the-second-coming of Jesus. I’m very sorry for the children and young adults who are having to learn why we don’t put ordinary people on pedestals and their parents who have to figure out a way to explain it to them. Pedestals never work out. Ever.
I am thankful that this situation is making people really look at what he teaches and the extreme views he has regarding the function of women in the home, church and culture. I honestly think most people who send him money either as donations or through purchases really don’t understand what they are supporting.
And if a feminist is someone who believes that women have equal value and standing before God… Then I will happily identify myself as a feminist. I won’t be distracted or dissuaded by people who throw out phrases like “rebellious spirit” because they just don’t work.
And, frankly, I can think of many men I consider more courageous than Doug Phillips. Saying men are wimps and liberal if they aren’t like him isn’t convincing either.
That ship sailed a long time ago.
This is the BEST ARTICLE ON THE TOPIC I’VE READ. And my God, that description of how he behaved when Beaull had their last child..my God. Lord help the people that disgusting man hurt.
This unfortunate sin that Mr. Phillips has confessed of is terrible, indeed! However, instead of driving us to anger and resentment toward him or others, it should rather show us that none of us are above temptation.
If you are human than you are just as fallen and sinful as Mr. Phillips is.
Luke 15:7
“Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.”
It’s CLEAR that Doug has sinned greatly, but it is also clear that he has repented and is forgiven by our merciful Lord that has likewise forgiven us. What is to be gained by analyzing someone else’s sin?
Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
This is NOT our place to publicly analyze someones sin. Sin is sin. Weather you have stolen, told a lie, or sinned sexually, you have shamed the name of Christ and are in need of forgiveness.
Its fine to not “agree” 100% with ones beliefs, but don’t break them down and see them as being too far gone. I myself do not agree 100% with Doug Phillips, however that should not stop me from praying for him and forgiving him.
Should we not say as the apostle Paul said? “I am the least of all the saints”
For truly we are the least of all, but by God’s perfect mercy and forgiveness we can love, and forgive those that might wrong us.
Please consider all that I have listed here, and may our Lord bless you.
Hi Lewis,
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I am in complete agreement with you that none of us are above making the same mistake Doug did. I once had someone tell me they could never do that (commit adultery) and my thought was that if you think you couldn’t do it, you’re already half way there. We all need to be on our guard regarding sin of all kinds.
I do disagree with you about the public nature of the discussion. Doug is a public person by choice. He has spent years promoting himself, his family, his business and his beliefs in a very public way. That was his choice. He has held himself up as an example of what every man should be and his marriage and family as what everyone else should do. He has been scathing in his remarks at times regarding those who disagree with him. He believes it is his way or the highway more than perhaps any other man out there speaking to Christians and homeschoolers. Any other teacher I can think of will offer qualifiers and acknowledge that other Christians may come to different conclusions. Not Doug. The very nature of what he has done and how he has put himself up there opens him up to analysis.
However, this post is not just about his mistake. This post is about the entire system he promotes. I do believe it is destructive and have believed that for many years. And so I find it troubling in the extreme that people are defending him who have never acquainted themselves with what he really teaches or promotes. I sincerely hope that people who took the links I have here are considering the truth and digging deeper online. I don’t want to see any more families destroyed by what he teaches. He has held up an ideal that no one could possibly keep, including him. That should give us all pause for thought.
Janet – I made a thorough study of Doug Phillips’ “Tenets of Biblical patriarchy – and what he say is not biblical.
http://tenetsofbiblicalpatriarchy.blogspot.com/
In fact, I have measured all of it against the Bible, and given the entire set of Tenets a score of being 36% Biblical – the majority of messages are either one of several ways to understand a text, Biblical half truths spoken without the other half, things that never appear in the Bible, or even a few things which contradict the Bible.
Even those things that are Biblical are not on the central themes of Christianity – Jesus, salvation, mercy, God changing us from the inside, loving others as ourselves…
If you want to argue that Phillips is Biblical, come to my blog, and comment on where I go wrong and what verse actually support the interpretation Doug & co. gives in these tenets.
I increasingly worry if believers or at least those presumed to be Christians expend so much energy in indulging in gossip and slander. Nothing likens us more to the Devil than when we invest so much energy in spitting poisonous words to brethren. I do not believe that anyone deserves such attacks. I am certain that Doug Phillips will reach out to those that he believes have been so much hurt by his actions. I feel sorry for those that are gloating in the malicious articles. The impact is so huge that it will never be possible to take back your word should the Holy Spirit convict you of the guilt of slander.
Repentance is not intended to satisfy theological and philosophical curiosity of “Athens”. God is not impressed with our verbal dexterity as in the contrition of the heart of the subject repentant. None of us have any right to prescribe what genuine repentance is and to chart a way forward for Doug. Doug is very clear as to who he is accountable to and whom he has hurt. One thing we should never do is to judge other people’s motives. Scriptures are emphatic about human limitations in judging motives or indeed anything that is unseen. When we judge we usurp the authority of God to judge all mankind. For those that feel the temptation to add more dosage of venom, take a little time to reflect on the Scripture; Do not Judge and you will not be judged!! As such, no one is competent, whether an insider or otherwise, to judge Doug Phillips’ motive other than his maker. If anything I seem to find it much easier to decipher the motives of his sworn enemies whose dark and rebellious articles and anthems are now evident even across the border. By the way in case you are wondering about my identity. I am certainly not American; I really wish I was! I have no paid Association with Vision Forum other than my sheer admiration of the Ministry and its allied associates. I have learnt so much from Vision Forum. For once it has been refreshing to hear Men of God candidly speak out about truth that has been compromised so much by the forces of liberalism and its familiar accomplices. If Vision Forum is distasteful to the USA, it is certainly a very welcome Ministry to Christians outside the USA. Militant and pervasive feminism is certainly a major headwind to the healthy spiritual growth of the Church. I know very few in the western world who would have the courage to say this. Feminism, bent on destroying family and the Church, has succeeded to cower so many churches and the devoted men of God. If the subject of patriarchy is so objectionable to you, apply your energy to things that are perhaps more important to you. You do not have to share your anger with everyone. Doug has sinned. He has acknowledged it. No one has a right to tell him what to do and certainly not you. You have so much in your own life that needs to be put straight and the earlier you realize this the better. Focus on the log in your eyes and Doug will be available to deal with the speck in his own eyes. For the sworn enemies, take the time to reflect. Is that all that you want to be remembered for in this life, that you were so schooled in the art of gossip that Men of God licked their wounds inflicted by your vilely diction. Do you really want to leave a legacy as someone who sought gratification in hating and embarrassing the men of God. Which Scripture can you honestly reconcile yourself to. Remember, the worst of God’s men are doing some good and the owner is pleased with them and does not expect you to judge someone else’s servant.
Thank you for your comment from Africa.
You wrote:
No, that is not what I will be remembered for. I will be remembered for speaking and advocating on behalf of those who are hurt by men who claim to love God. Women, children, young people, and, yes, even men who have been ruined by the experiences they have had.
I will leave a legacy as someone who sought to bring women to freedom in Christ.
That they will know the truth of how much Jesus loves them as women.
That they will know the truth of how well Jesus treated women while He was on earth.
They will know the truth that Jesus set women free to be the first to tell of the resurrection, sending them to the Apostles with the good news.
That they will know the truth of how Jesus encouraged women to sit at His feet and learn from Him as a rabbi, something women were never encouraged to do that time.
That they will know the truth that Jesus accepted financial support from women who had money of their own.
That they will know the truth that a woman was the first documented convert in Europe and her home apparently was the first gathering of the church in Europe.
This is the Jesus I want women to meet. A Jesus who turned things upside down and gave women freedom and dignity. Not the oppressive teachings of DP and VF that make women unable to think for themselves and believe they cannot even approach their Lord and Savior with joy and confidence without speaking to a man first.
The view of woman peddled by VF and DP is not the view that Jesus gives us in the NT.
And, yes, there is a place to expose false teachings and even be angry in a way that is not sin.
Galatians 5:11-13 (NIV)
But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves. For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.…
Matthew 12:33-35 (NIV)
“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.…
Matthew 21:12-13 (NIV)
And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. And He said to them, “It is written, ‘MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER’; but you are making it a ROBBERS’ DEN.”…
Mark 9:42 (NIV)
Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.
It is a serious business to get between Jesus and his children. It is serious business to encourage people to look to man instead of Jesus. We should be angry. And I would suggest anyone who isn’t angry about what has been happening to so many families who are associated with VF and DP hasn’t really talked to people to understand the devastation in their lives. Hasn’t read what they really teach. Hasn’t researched what happens to families who associate long-term with this group.
I pray that God will open your eyes to the freedom God gives to women, how much He loves them, and the wonderful purposes He has for each of His dear daughters whom He loves so thoroughly and tenderly.
Romans 8:1-2 (NIV)
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.…
Bravo, Sallie. Keep doing what you’re doing! Great response above, too!
Speaking as one of those women who turned away from Christianity Proper years ago, I want to suggest that for myself, and many women like me, Jesus was never the problem. Our issues are with the men and women who insist on our social, economic and spiritual inferiority.
Sallie, I truly understand your anger, but I wanted to give you this smidgeon of hope…you would be surprised how much the teachings of Christ continue to inform and guide our lives. We are just done with the insults, limitations, gossip and double standards. Unchurched we may be, but our commitments to our 35 year marriages, to family, to community, to loving our neighbor, to good labor and right conduct are all rooted in the faith of our childhood.. We may not “walk the walk” anymore, but the foundation remains, and we know Jesus is not the problem.
Who knows? Maybe women like you can bridge the chasm…LEADING the way. I personally am not optimistic…for every Sallie that lifts women up, there are ten that will come up with new and creative reasons why women exist solely to serve the desires of men. But that is just me.
Maybe not so much for other women who have walked away.
Thank you for this post.
Sallie…can you edit? Fix the second sentence?
Done!
And thank you for your comment. I’ll respond more later. 🙂
Sallie, thank you so much for your VERY righteous anger over this issue. You have expressed it beautifully.
Like Anne Hunt, I am a born-again Christian who no longer attends church. I could write for hours about the spiritual abuse I experienced, especially because I am divorced and a single mom. But I still love the Lord with all my heart.
I found the blog “Love, Joy, Feminism” a few months ago and started learning about this patriarchy/quiverfull/dominionist culture. Good grief, these people make my former churches look liberal! I am so glad there are bloggers like you and Libby Anne speaking up for those of us who were so mistreated in these churches.
My heart breaks for all the women and children trapped in this terrible lifestyle. I pray, too, that they also become Bereans and start questioning everything. Please keep writing about this. The mainstream media hasn’t caught on yet; maybe they never will. But maybe someday, a wife or daughter will get the opportunity to spend a few minutes surfing, and find your blog, and get the courage to escape.
Hi Ann and TLC,
I apologize it has taken me so long to respond to your comments.
Thank you for the words of encouragement. I often wonder if what I’m doing here really makes a difference. I don’t have the freedom to invest as much time here as I would like so I feel like I never really get into a flow. But I do want to speak out and encourage women who have been hurt or who are bewildered by what they see happening around them. And every once in awhile I receive a note from someone who says that what I wrote was exactly what she needed and so I continue on as I’m able.
I truly don’t think most Christians fully grasp the gravity of what is developing in churches as it relates to women. I’ve been working on a post about how I believe we are already seeing conservative complementarians and patriarchalists doubling down even more aggressively in their beliefs. I think the divisions we’ve seen so far regarding women in the church will seem minor compared to what is ahead.
I know a number of wonderful believers who have left the institutional church for a variety of reasons. People like yourself who love Jesus but could no longer handle dealing with the church as it currently exists. I do think we will see a continued exodus which I’ll also explain in that post.
I should probably just go finish it! LOL!
Thank you again for your kind comments. Please stop by often and share your thoughts. 🙂
Yes, please finish that post, Sallie. I appreciate your writing.
The flesh was weak? Let me tell you something, I could care less if he waltzed in front of her buck naked or her doing the same, regardless if your a Christian or and Atheist, one word comes to mind, you may have heard of it , its called NO
Hi Bobby,
Thank you for your comment. I’m not sure what your “flesh is weak” comment was referring to. Another comment? But anyway, I agree. If she danced naked in front of him and threw herself on the bed, he still should have said no and walked out of the room.
However, it is just as possible that she is so brainwashed by her time in VF and with DP that she had no idea how to withstand his advances. She may have fancied herself in love with him, believing that he would leave his wife for her. How many women involved in affairs continue on for years because they believe this very thing? We’re talking about a man who apparently has a fair amount of charisma in person. Look at how people followed him and went out of their way to be a part of his world. So we have a young woman who has been taught since she was tiny that she is always to obey and submit to men, especially “godly” leaders. I can see how she would get sucked into the situation. Her conscience was seared by the constant teaching she was exposed to. That is what a cult does to you.
I am floored and deeply offended by this post. I agree with the poster who said it was full of venom and slander. I didn’t read in any grace and compassion. The sins in this article are just as dangerous as the ones DP has committed. It is thinly veiled as a defense for those hurt by patriarchy. What about all of those whose lives have been enriched by patriarchy under the guidance of Christ? Where is the truth behind this?
I do agree that no one should look to a man above God. Duh. Even Doug Phillips preached that! But we are to honor his Hod given order. We will continue to buy from Vision Forum. We will continue to draw wisdom from others, while making sure it’s biblically sound. We don’t buy materials because any one man or ministry heads something. We do it because the materials are good and helpful to our families.
Heather,
Thank you for your comment. I would encourage you to truly examine the teachings of VF and DP in light of the Scriptures. I would also encourage you to look more deeply into how DP’s patriarchal teachings damaged hundreds or even thousands of families over the past ten years. Were there some families who could find the tiny pieces of meat in it and spit out all the bones, gristle, fat and other waste? Yes. And if your family emerged unscathed, then count yourself blessed. But the devastation left by this man and the leaders he worked closely with is only starting to come out. Many people are going to be shocked in the weeks and months ahead.
Some of those closest to DP (in his inner circle) are starting to state publicly what others have known or suspected for some time. If you want to know the truth, do a little digging. You can start with reading the statements from Peter Bradrick on his Facebook account that he just made public. He was DP’s personal assistant for a number of years. Others who were close to DP are distancing themselves, even those who initially came out in support of him. Did you hear the sermon Scott Brown preached right after all this went public in which he made some very strong statements against DP to the point where he seems to question his salvation? This goes WAY beyond the inappropriate flirtation confession that was floated out at first.
And you won’t be buying from VF much longer. They just made the store 60% off to get rid of everything and it is reported the catalog part of DP’s kingdom will be closed as of December 31.
Truly, you need to understand what is going on here. I hope you will study these things for yourself and know the truth. Patriarchy, even beyond DP, is an unhealthy way for men and women to function in the Body of Christ.
Thank you for stopping by and may God bless your endeavors to serve Him.
Are women to blame?
Go ask Adam ……and while you’re at it, ask Bill Clinton.
My point is, the idea that women, by virtue of our being female are somehow “to blame” – for everything – is ridiculous, though there are men, such as fundamentalist Moslems and certain Christian theocrats, who would have us believe that.
Women, taken one at a time, are another thing entirely – Eve was complicit in the Fall, and a woman was complicit in Doug Phillips’ fall as well (not to mention Monica and Bill!), but Eve and Monica and Doug’s mistress were not acting alone, it takes two to tango. Adam passed the buck, and men have been passing it ever since, but I do think that Doug Phillips has stepped up to the plate and accepted responsibility for whatever it was that took place between him and the unnamed lady, and for that, at least, he does deserve a modicum of approbation.
This is why I no longer call myself a Christian. Not because I’m ashamed of Christ, but because I’m ashamed of having to share that label with people like this.
People say we shouldn’t call out the church because, “She’s the bride,” or “It would be like telling someone we hate their wife.” I don’t hate the church, but I would tell a man if his wife was spreading gossip, was destroying reputations, and being hateful and spiteful to everyone who has the nerve to disagree with her. That’s what I’m gonna do when I see the same things going on in the church.
We can only pray that more people will wake up to the misogyny promoted as scripture that is complementarianism. Yes, misogyny. That’s what it is. Plain and simple. We need to show that views like that are not okay and it never will be okay.
When I get angry over things like this, God helps me to remember that the day of reckoning will come for people like this miserable excuse for a human being. People who know better, but don’t care. People who are only in ministry to serve their egos. People whom the bible says should be shunned.
The day will come when they are exposed for who they are and what they’ve done. May God have mercy on them.